User blog:Paleomario66/Mario's Higher-End feats: Outliers or not?
'Introductions' The Super Mario Bros. franchise is known for being amazingly inconsistent in terms of feats, especially since Miyamoto considers the cast as a "troupe of actors", taking different roles in different games as with Popeye. Their power often varies just as much as their roles do. The Tier 4 feats are commonly accepted on most wikis, and sometimes the Tier 3 ones are. However, most of the time, the Tier 2 feats in the franchise are rejected, considered outliers, or decided to be illogical from a powerscaling perspective (ex: Mario defeating Grand Star Bowser or Dreamy Bowser). There are plenty of feats ranging from Star level or lower, to Multiverse level (some arguments place them even higher than that). Before I start this blog, I will not be taking into account String Theory Soup or the possibility of the Dream Depot being 5-D to infinite-dimensional, as those two ideas are far too controversial. What I will be addressing are the well-known Tier 3/2 feats, such as Mario defeating SMG Bowser, Grand Star Bowser, and Dreamy Bowser, as well as some lesser-known ones like him defeating Black Bowser. 'Paper Mario realm creation feat' Comparable to Paper Mario, who created a realm with countless stars in it, as well as nebulae and other celestial bodies that match ours. The fact that the realm has countless stars, nebulae, and other celestial bodies that match ours heavily implies that Paper Mario created an entire universe. Since the realms are separate, Paper Mario had to have created time along with space, since one can't exist without the other, so this would be Low 2-C instead of 3-A or 4-A. 'Created by Papercraft Hammer?' Even if the Papercraft Hammer did create the realm, Mario should scale to it since there are bosses who can survive the Papercraft Hammer, and Mario can defeat those bosses. ''Super Mario Galaxy'' - Bowser Tanks Universal Destruction I'm not going to go too much into this feat, since it has been discussed constantly. A lot of people on various websites consider it a legitimate feat, but deem it an outlier. There are arguments against this though, most of which are covered in this YouTube video. 'Scaling to Grand Star Bowser, Dreamy Bowser, Black Bowser, etc.' Some people argue that since Mario is usually portrayed as comparable to (and sometimes even struggles against) base Bowser, him scaling to Grand Star and Dreamy Bowser would be illogical. However, Mario also pretty consistently fights amped versions of Bowser, such as the Sticker Crown Bowser, Star Rod Bowser, Black Bowser, Shrowser, Bowletta, Dreamy Bowser, ShinyRobo Bowser, Bowser with that big Power Star at the end of SM64, and he usually fights Bowser after just enduring a full adventure, and he also fights opponents often that stomped Bowser, that one boss in Superstar Saga that wanted a hundred coins from you, and he also gets defeated by Mario in TTYD after he just fought two fights in the Glitz Pit and another time after Mario just fought Grodus and was also sided with Kammy Koopa, the list of why Mario is usually portrayed as far superior to Bowser goes on. All of these show that Mario scaling to the amped forms of Bowser is by no means illogical. 'Dreamy Bowser, Zeekeeper, etc. Outliers?' Mario scaling to Dreamy Bowser is commonly considered an outlier by the VS Community, but there are other instances supporting this. Mario can tank hits from and hurt Zeekeeper in the Giant battle. He also defeated his own Dreamy self, so that's a plus. If Zeekeeper flies upwards and Dreamy Luigi doesn't duck, he hits Mario, sending him right into the screen. And Mario is the reason the Team Drill Attack does any damage. It's also notable that Mario was dodging attacks from Zeekeeper until Dreamy Luigi came in. He even comments on how Mario is very nimble, so it is likely Mario and Luigi scale to Dreamy Bowser and the Zeekeeper. 'Bowser threatening the Dream Depot' As shown above, Mario can defeat the various amped forms of Bowser, so him scaling to Bowser's feat of threatening the Dream Depot is far from an outlier. '2-C Power Stars' In Super Mario 64, Mario defeated Bowser, who was under the effects of the Power Stars, which enabled him to create universe-sized realms within the walls and paintings. He had to of created the time in the painting as well, as time and space cannot exist without the other. Further evidenced by how Tick Tock Clock is a world entirely based on time. If he didn't, he'd have Infinite speed for moving in countless timeless realms. Now, why universe-sized? Because just Bob-omb Battlefield is described by Mario as a parallel world of some sorts when he calls it a world and compares it to the main verse's realm as a world. We also know Bowser made this pretty much instantly. And we know Bowser created these worlds individually because Toad describes them as Bowser's "separate" worlds. 'Other evidence that time was created along with the space' The Power Stars in that game can also create realms with their own timeline and ancient history, implying time and a certain chronological order of the events was put in the realm along with space. In the French version of the game, Cyrock mentions that he had been in an eternal sleep before Mario had woken up, further supporting that Bowser was creating universes with ancient/eternal history within them. ''Super Mario Bros. 3'' Bowser feat [https://i.imgur.com/AAnIwg9.jpg Bowser threatened the existence of all Mushroom Worlds even after his entire army was demolished and it was just him.] With that said, we have one last need: the size of those worlds, and whether or not they're connected. Well, first, considering all the worlds and sub-worlds and mini-worlds are all called worlds are specifically referenced as things like "this world," we can safely reach a conclusion that all worlds--the meta-worlds and even the levels themselves--are separate. And before you say they can't be separate cause you walk to them... this scan with the mini-worlds describes the hands as reaching out of nowhere and taking you to the mini-world. Therefore, it's not illogical to say that the levels are entered through some sort of portal or rift. Finally, their size... first of all, we know they have a star, as World 2's desert level has a Sun. But then we also have the Underworld... which has bottomless pits, making them infinite in size. Now, let's address some arguments against this... first of all, "bottomless pits are common in Mario." Actually, no, they're not. The "bottomless" pits in Mario normally are simply fan-dubbed as bottomless and have never been given statements justifying them as such. Second, "hyperbole." It doesn't make sense for it to be one, really. Underworlds are quite often of actual infinite-size, so it doesn't seem off for this one to be like that as well. With that said, Mario is so powerful in this game, he seen the gap of Ludwig and the other six Koopalings as tiny, even though Ludwig states clearly that he has the power of all the previous Koopalings, and is the ultimate Koopaling. Combining all the worlds for the Koopalings into Ludwig's power would make him 77 universes, since all the Koopalings have complete control over the worlds they're in. And since Mario sees that as a tiny gap, it should mean he's at least 10x stronger, making him and Bowser able to destroy 770 universes. 'But Bowser conquered those worlds!' There's nothing stating that Bowser would merely conquer those worlds. They only say that the Mushroom Worlds are depending on you to defeat Bowser. If you don't defeat him, their safety is in danger. The Koopalings also control their own worlds, so it makes sense to say that he was threatening to destroy those worlds. It's also how the SMB3 cartoon portrays him. 'Other Tier 2 feats worth noting' 'Wart' Defeated Wart, who put a curse over Subcon and its inhabitants, apparently altering the universe in some way. Wart is also FAR above the likes of Mouser, who can destroy dreams on his own. To back such a thing up, pretty much all of Wart's displays have been casual (At least Universe level+) 'Shadow Queen' Defeated the Shadow Queen, whose power was greater than that of the Crystal Stars due to creating them. The Crystal Stars were stated to have been able to reality warp the planet and the heavens, and was even stated to hold the very essence of the heavens, which as shown in Color Splash is a higher plane of existence. This refers to all that is. Similar to the Bible, "heavens" refers to the realms above the Earth: the atmosphere, the Sun, the moon, the stars, and all that’s in outer space. The definition of essence is "the intrinsic natural nature or indispensable quality of something, especially something abstract as an idea, but without a physical form to represent it, that determines its character." The natural qualities of a universe are how it naturally functions; the abstract qualities of the universe that are indispensable include time as one of them. That means the Crystal Stars have to hold time as well, and not just the matter of the universe. (Universe level+) 'Dreamy Luigi scaling' Could fight with Antasma and even kill him, who grossly overpowered Dreamy Luigi. Dreamy Luigi can possess the concept of time itself, which is able to stabilize the entire universe. (Universe level+) 'Star Rod' Defeated Bowser empowered by the Star Rod, which allowed him to, at improper power, defeat and imprison the Star Spirits. The Star Spirits are the Star Guardians, guardians of Dream Depot. Dream Depot is a realm that turns all dreams into universes. The Star Spirits can also "create fun-filled games" within this realm, which all seem to take place within a universe, so they likely created it all in the first place; I mean, they're the guardians, creating fun-filled games that are dreams in of themselves, and you're telling me they didn't create it? Doesn't make sense. So them creating a realm with countless dreams/universes makes them 2-B, and Bowser w/ the Star Rod scales to this. Mario would thus also scale. At proper power, Bowser became well over a hundred times stronger than before, so by the end of the game, Mario scales to an even higher level of power. (Multiverse level) 'Tier of Black Bowser' Black Bowser was empowered and possessed by the Black Paint. The Black Paint makes up all of space itself, and is still within each individual color on their own link proves that; mixing all the colors makes Black Paint, which also give life to all of the landscape and people. Thus, we can safely conclude that anything that has color--which practically everything does--is made up of some amount of Black Paint. Finally, paint makes up all concepts. With the power of paint, Red could talk telepathically to Mario and Huey by coloring their thoughts. This would mean that paint not only gives life to beings and such, but it is also what embodies and creates thoughts; concepts are defined as thoughts and ideas. Since paint makes up all concepts, this would include the concept of dreams, which is what makes things like the Dream Depot possible. Because the Dream Depot is made up of countless universes, the Black Paint, and therefore Black Bowser, would easily be this tier. (Multiverse level) 'Other Color Splash Feats' Can create a realm outside the universe in Color Splash, and can also put himself outside it via Paperize (Universe level+) 'Mario + Rabbids' Defeated Mega Dragon Bowser, and destroyed the Megabug. The former is the form the latter took after absorbing Spawny in turn was merged with the SupaMerge Headset and Bowser. By absorbing the SupaMerge Headset, the Megabug attained its fusionism powers, which was capable of merging Mario's world and the real world (Multi-Universe level) 'Paper Mario feats' *Defeated Bowser in Super Paper Mario, who survived the destruction of an entire world (Universe level+) *Defeated Dimentio, who is superior to Count Bleck, who annihilated his home universe. (Universe level+) *Dimentio also surpassed The Void, which was going to consume all existence--all worlds, all dimensions, all possibilities and all timelines. How did Dimentio surpass The Void? First off, Paper Mario and the others tanked The Void. But, that's not all that's important here. Mainly, look at Paper Mario's condition after The Void. He has been blasted interdimensionally back to Flipside, and is unconscious. Now, to compare, when Dimentio attacked, Paper Mario and his party was blasted--once again--interdimensionally to The Underwhere, and were once again rendered unconscious. The similarities definitely can't be ignored; Dimentio matched its power. But even then, he has points of surpassing it; his attack that he held back on, mind you, surpassed a tremor from The Void. He merely snapped his fingers without malicious intent, and his tremor shook Castle Bleck harder than all the tremors The Void caused; we know he was holding back because he didn't want to hurt Luigi; he needed him. (Multiverse level) 'Conclusion' Mario's Tier 2 feats are by no means an outlier, and there are insanely numerous. The best way to organize these feats would be to have a variable tier for Mario, or have multiple keys for each type of game (Ex: 2D games, 3D games, RPGs, Paper Mario series). Category:Blog posts